Elektron-Users

ZiggY wrote:

Indeed we should do our homework first

Did you read my Swing PDF definition?

You still have not acknowledge that your most basic understanding that a swing/shuffle setting of 50% means some margin of minimum Swing was absolutely incorrect and has absolutely nothing to do with the absurd notion that Elektron some how decided to 'build-in' a degree of non-rhythmic 'human-feel' to their products - I think an admission on your part (and DLX too while we are at it) is well in order here Ziggy considering the amount of noise you feel compelled to make on the subject?

innerclock wrote:

ZiggY wrote:

anyone who has expressed so much confidence in what they hear like you have in this thread really wouldn't have a problem hearing the issues in this clip:

http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=10042&pos=0

Hi Ziggy - what am I listening to this for - it sounds like my Machine Drum - I'm assuming it is Monomachine? It sounds flat and limp to me - sure that's personal I know and I won't waste my time measuring it up in SF8 - no point because there is no tight reference in the file to compare the rest of the slop to anyway. The whole lot sounds blurry if you ask me. Like my MD - just a bit lifeless and rough round the edges. And it would sound better if the step/tempo precision was improved in whatever was driving it.

David.

*claps*

There is a tight reference. There are actually two sample accurate references in the clip, for the entire length of the clip. I guess you can't hear it though. :roll:

ZiggY wrote:

Yup, no one here is talking about music... You guys are a bunch of chinscratchers, not musicians. You guys like music equipment not music.



Have a read of my fave albums on my Jukebox page if you are questioning my musical miopia - plenty of funk and soul there brother and not a sequencer in sight - but they are all tight all the same....

http://www.innerclocksystems.com/index.asp?action=page&name=32

David.

rgmccaig wrote:
Hi,

So let me get this straight:

Does the test file consist of two takes, one 'with slop' and one 'without'? Your description doesn't make it sound that way. It seems like you are asking us to identify _which hits_ are off.... is that right?

No, not which hits are off... but where it changes, and it changes to a much greater degree than 2ms.


If we get a proper test file we can all agree on, then obviously I _do_ believe we will hear the difference; I also have had enough experience with the fact that EVERY BLINKING ELECTRONIC MUSICIAN HAS HAD EXPERIENCE WITH ADJUSTING A KNOB THIS WAY OR THAT BY ONE OR TWO MILLISECONDS AND HEARING AN AUDIBLE DIFFERENCE. That's why we're not exactly seeing this dire need to test the point.

But again, with a proper test, I believe we would hear the difference.


What you are describing by "adjusting a knob and hearing a difference" is in essence exactly what psychoacoustics can do. If you are really hearing this change of 1 or 2ms you should be able to hear it without ever adjusting a knob, and thats exactly what is happening in the clip.

niall wrote:

ZiggY wrote:

Yup, no one here is talking about music... You guys are a bunch of chinscratchers, not musicians. You guys like music equipment not music.


I rather like my music =

...and the Elektrons are the best tools I've used to realise my musical ambitions.


*hats off* I rather like your music too.

innerclock wrote:

ZiggY wrote:

Indeed we should do our homework first

Did you read my Swing PDF definition?

You still have not acknowledge that your most basic understanding that a swing/shuffle setting of 50% means some margin of minimum Swing was absolutely incorrect and has absolutely nothing to do with the absurd notion that Elektron some how decided to 'build-in' a degree of non-rhythmic 'human-feel' to their products - I think an admission on your part (and DLX too while we are at it) is well in order here Ziggy considering the amount of noise you feel compelled to make on the subject?


Hah, I'd be happen to acknowledge that I was incorrect... but its not going to happen until you acknowledge that all that "my hearing is perfect", "I know my ears and brain well enough that the placebo effect and power of suggestion don't effect them" junk is just miserably arrogant and so terribly in the contrary to modern science. :hammer:

ZiggY wrote:

rgmccaig wrote:
Hi,

So let me get this straight:

Does the test file consist of two takes, one 'with slop' and one 'without'? Your description doesn't make it sound that way. It seems like you are asking us to identify _which hits_ are off.... is that right?

No, not which hits are off... but where it changes, and it changes to a much greater degree than 2ms.





Alrighty then... so why not redo the test file so that it addresses the issue at hand, rather than a 'straw man' issue, I'm sure some of us will be happy to take the test.

We're not saying that audience members could tell _which hits_ are off, or where, we're saying that overall, the version where everything is tight will sound audibly/testably different than the version where some tracks are tight and some are not. Just a 'gut feeling' of which mix sounds rock solid as compared to not rock solid. Make sense?

As opposed to many people here, I'm perfectly willing to change my opinion based on thorough evidence, it just needs to be properly done.

innerclock wrote:

Niall - have you heard back from Elektron?

No. I do trust them to address the concern, because they're not jerks, but I expect that they'd want to do a little homework on their ends before saying anything definitive.

ZiggY wrote:

Hah, I'd be happen to acknowledge that I was incorrect... but its not going to happen until you acknowledge that all that "my hearing is perfect", "I know my ears and brain well enough that the placebo effect and power of suggestion don't effect them" junk is just miserably arrogant and so terribly in the contrary to modern science. :hammer:

I make music Ziggy - I'm no scientist thats's for certain but, arrogance aside, the SPS-1 is sloppy - there is no doubt in anyone's mind on this thread worth mentioning anymore.

David.

niall wrote:

innerclock wrote:

Niall - have you heard back from Elektron?

No. I do trust them to address the concern, because they're not jerks, but I expect that they'd want to do a little homework on their ends before saying anything definitive.

Cool - phew - thought for a second they had said - no way Jose.....

Just checking....

David.