Elektron-Users

Ziggy I was referring to your first clip. I haven't found the other one? I don't get the point of burying what I want to show in "music". For one, I haven't had the MD long enough to have any serious tracks to show it. One musical perspective of the problem is that I have a hard time looping anything from the MD live in reaktor, because the sound always shifts a bit. And the one problem of the flamming and phasing I made clear in that other mp3 is one thing that immediately jumps at you cause it kills the bottom end of the bass sometimes. Not very important while playing live and stuff, but for the track I'm building I ended up taking the wavs from the MD and realigning the kicks by hand. And you know it still has this detroity not so supertighty flair to it, which is fine by me really, but it's there, and from looking at it it's the hhs not sitting right.

On the other hand I must say that ziggy is right on the bass playing and stuff, I think it is impossible to have ms precision on a hand played instrument, at least not consistently. That's where feeling comes into play. However I know that it possible to hold a beat so steady that the small fluctuations won't make the pulse change, kinda like the MD then

But, have you noticed, when playing real instruments against electronic tracks, how *very* hard it is to integrate those, even played by someone with great time and feel, without loosing the "i'm a computer boom tschik"-electro-uebertight feel? It's almost impossible. Every time I try to put guitars or bass on an electro track of mine, I end up spending a lot lot lot of time in the wav editor to just not loose that tightness (or the simple solution to loop just a bar or two of the playing to make the sloppyness the new precision, if you're still following me).

It is much easier when you play a MIDI Instrument, and can quantise selected notes or things, and easily rework the dynamics or small timing steps.

Another way to look at it and the "publics" preference is to look at how unmanly tight timing-wise pro-tooled autotuned pop-music has become. This is not my personal preference really, but at least it's there.

daswesen wrote:
Ziggy I was referring to your first clip. I haven't found the other one? I don't get the point of burying what I want to show in "music". For one, I haven't had the MD long enough to have any serious tracks to show it. One musical perspective of the problem is that I have a hard time looping anything from the MD live in reaktor, because the sound always shifts a bit. And the one problem of the flamming and phasing I made clear in that other mp3 is one thing that immediately jumps at you cause it kills the bottom end of the bass sometimes. Not very important while playing live and stuff, but for the track I'm building I ended up taking the wavs from the MD and realigning the kicks by hand. And you know it still has this detroity not so supertighty flair to it, which is fine by me really, but it's there, and from looking at it it's the hhs not sitting right.

On the other hand I must say that ziggy is right on the bass playing and stuff, I think it is impossible to have ms precision on a hand played instrument, at least not consistently. That's where feeling comes into play. However I know that it possible to hold a beat so steady that the small fluctuations won't make the pulse change, kinda like the MD then

But, have you noticed, when playing real instruments against electronic tracks, how *very* hard it is to integrate those, even played by someone with great time and feel, without loosing the "i'm a computer boom tschik"-electro-uebertight feel? It's almost impossible. Every time I try to put guitars or bass on an electro track of mine, I end up spending a lot lot lot of time in the wav editor to just not loose that tightness (or the simple solution to loop just a bar or two of the playing to make the sloppyness the new precision, if you're still following me).

It is much easier when you play a MIDI Instrument, and can quantise selected notes or things, and easily rework the dynamics or small timing steps.

Yup, i so agree...

Anyone else get the feeling that ziggy doesn't really make or enjoy techno-type music? (using the term techno loosely.)

It's a freakin 'elektron drum machine', how can we be faulted for trying to make 'machine music' with it.

rgmccaig wrote:

Anyone else get the feeling that ziggy doesn't really make or enjoy techno-type music? (using the term techno loosely.)

It's a freakin 'elektron drum machine', how can we be faulted for trying to make 'machine music' with it.

After the Motown questions and comments about session players not being sample accurate I think that's a fair comment.

Hey, Motown being mentioned - I was rocking out hard to Stevie Wonder's 'Signed, Sealed Delivered' today in the car up nice and loud - three times in a row in fact - that tracks packs a solid punch in 2m30s straight up - they ain't sample accurate but f#$k me whatever clock they were on - they were all riding it home together tight. Amen for that.

David.

daswesen wrote:
On the other hand I must say that ziggy is right on the bass playing and stuff, I think it is impossible to have ms precision on a hand played instrument, at least not consistently. That's where feeling comes into play. However I know that it possible to hold a beat so steady that the small fluctuations won't make the pulse change, kinda like the MD then


That's a good point, although let me point out that a good musician rhythmic feeling is NEVER random (like on the MD, instead).

I regularly edit the recordings of some of the best session players in the world and you can always recognize a pattern in their timing variations.

That's what many call "groove".

A bug in the MD code causing random timing jitter is DEFINITELY not the same thing.

ZiggY wrote:

Why am I still here? Look at some of the posts people have done in this thread. Some of them even arrogantly attacked the guys at elektron...

There's fudging room in "arrogant", even if I don't believe it, but "attacked the guys at elektron" is a serious allegation that should be backed up. Please show your work, so those guys at Elektron won't look at this and think "WTF?" - more than they probably already have!

Hi all - anyone with any Elektron news?

I hope the Elektron guys are at least considering the issue.
Just simply ignoring the problem wouldn't be a very smart move on their side.

I just got an email from them. I'll post the contents if they grant permission, but even if they don't, have faith; this discussion is on their radar.

O, but I will paste one thing:

"There is nothing wrong with your method of measuring the jitter, any fully working sound card will do."

Elektron approve of our recording and measurement methods. We're examining Elektron's products. That facet of discussion is settled.

that's already something!