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TOPIC: Re:Elektron boxes in sync with Ableton Live
#165035
Chain Chomp
Posts: 536
Re:Elektron boxes in sync with Ableton Live 12 Years, 2 Months ago
dataline wrote:
my solution is to stop syncing DAWs and hardware

Exactly, this is what Daniel recommended, and it has worked for me.

I only use sync while I am writing so I can listen to the computer with the hardware.

When it comes to dropping audio; I turn off sync, and fly tracks in manually.

This makes things a lot tighter, (especially for the Octatrack).

Bad external sync and slices can be an editing nightmare!
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#165095
Cappy
Posts: 85
0
Re:Elektron boxes in sync with Ableton Live 12 Years, 2 Months ago
I know this is out of reach for most in terms of price, but I invested into an ACME-4 made by SND for rock solid sync between my DAW and the Elektron's as well as analog sequencers/drum machines (it has din sync outputs and cv trigs).

http://www.s-n-d.com/acme4e_a.html

When slaved to the ACME-4, I see almost zero amount of jitter on the Elektrons and is perhaps the most solid/stable clock out there. In addition you can fine tune and shift the individual clock outputs around which is amazing. You can essentially use it as a performance tool as each clock shift adjustment you make can be quantized. You can create all kinds of crazy off-kilter rhythms and then instantly recall your original sync settings to have everything sync right back in the pocket. In addition you have swing adjustment per midi output as well as half/double speed switches per midi output. It is basically the price of an Elektron but it is a pro piece of kit with quality components and you will never have to worry about sync issues again.

-cm
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#165136
Chain Chomp
Posts: 536
Re:Elektron boxes in sync with Ableton Live 12 Years, 2 Months ago
crixmadine wrote:
I see almost zero amount of jitter on the Elektrons and is perhaps the most solid/stable clock out there.

Really???

This is an example of quarter note jitter recorded w/ internal clock on a Machinedrum.

-64 samples/pushed by 1.45 ms
-64 samples/pushed by 1.45 ms
+96 samples/dragging by 2.18 ms
+160 samples/pushed by 3.63 ms
-32 samples/pushed by 0.73ms
-32 samples/pushed by 0.73 ms
-96 samples/pushed by 2.18 ms
96 samples/dragging by 2.18 ms
-32 samples/pushed by 0.73 ms
128 samples/dragging by 2.90 ms

Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing Elektron, I'm an avid user. Yet my point here is that there is a considerable amount of internal timing issues with these devices. Unfortunately, this is not just an Elektron issue. The DSI Tempest has an even worse internal clock as well as many other new devices. Still I have to ask the question WHY? When my apps for the iPad are near sample accurate, why are my dedicated hardware devices not?

If the drummer in your band couldn't keep time, would you keep him?

...I welcome all of your objections and flames!
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#165165
Cappy
Posts: 85
0
Re:Elektron boxes in sync with Ableton Live 12 Years, 2 Months ago
@prscrptn
What I was referring to there is the Elektron's have almost zero jitter when the SND ACME-4 clock is hooked up to them and serves as master clock which is the main point of my post. I'm not saying that Elektron's by themselves are jitter-free. I went ahead clarified my statement on my previous post.
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#165174
Re:Elektron boxes in sync with Ableton Live 12 Years, 2 Months ago
Syncing external gear to Live via midi clock is a hopeless joke - never had any joy with it. Yes the innerclock or probably also the SND solution will improve things as far as the limitation of the external box will allow. As already mentioned above.

Have to say that the SND box looks hot- a sync gen and sync shift in one. Haven't used the sync shift but being a big fan of my Flame Clockwork and what you can do with that I can imagine the joy of a similar trick with midi gear
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#165219
Chain Chomp
Posts: 536
Re:Elektron boxes in sync with Ableton Live 12 Years, 2 Months ago
crixmadine wrote:
@prscrptn
What I was referring to there is the Elektron's have almost zero jitter when the SND ACME-4 clock is hooked up to them and serves as master clock which is the main point of my post. I'm not saying that Elektron's by themselves are jitter-free. I went ahead clarified my statement on my previous post.


No worries... I misunderstood your statement. I guess this topic has become somewhat of a hot button for me as of late. I just do not understand why in 2012 our computers can not deliver the same quality of synchronization that an ATARI computer did 30 years ago! My statement against hardware developers is the same. Why does a $0.99 app for my iPad has better timing than my $1750 dedicated hardware sequencer? It just makes no sense at all...
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#165255
Hammer Bro
Posts: 647
Re:Elektron boxes in sync with Ableton Live 12 Years, 2 Months ago
having the BPM display drifting is perfectly "normal". The question is : do you hear problems ?
(sorry i didn't read the whole topic)
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#165268
Cappy
Posts: 111
Re:Elektron boxes in sync with Ableton Live 12 Years, 2 Months ago
Citizen J wrote:
There's 2 conflicting statements in this thread

What I know is that DAW clock sucks when controlling external gear. Innerclock solves this problem by bypassing the DAW clock and sending it's own to (in this specific case) the Elektron. The Elektron in this case would act as Slave device so no clock being sent or jitter being generated from it. The other statement was probably referring to the opposite process i.e the Elektron acting as the Master and having to clock the other devices which are acting as the Slave.
So they are actually 2 different slices of 2 (different) pizzas . NO conflict .
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#165280
Chain Chomp
Posts: 536
Re:Elektron boxes in sync with Ableton Live 12 Years, 2 Months ago
^ There are actually two points of jitter when syncing hardware to a DAW.

1. Sync generated by the computer.

2. Internal clock of the hardware.

These two clocks are not related, yet when added together become worse...
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#165342
Goomba
Posts: 15
0
Re:Elektron boxes in sync with Ableton Live 12 Years, 2 Months ago
as mentioned before:
For perfect syncing your DAW with hardware:
SyncLock from www.innerclock.com is the answer!
supertight clock from any system with two spare audio-outs (1 for the clock and the second for transport) ingenius and bulletproof system, my soft and hardware become 1 (one) 'thing' !

I use it all the time, after years of frustration in trying to sync my mac with my elektron boxes and other gear, this is the solution, I can record, listen, playback and all is 100% in time and sounds the same!
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