Elektron-Users

Hi guys....im just practising with signals incoming and outgoing ...
It seems a bit hard for me, so far, to find a correct approach in structuring gains (for Inputs) and normal (Flex/Static) tracks.

Since (in normal out configuraton) EVERYTHING is going out from just one out pair....overflow(read: saturation....not really analog... at least at my ears) seems to appear too easy...

So.....anyone intrested in finding the headroom at different stages of the signal flow?
It's a shame that Elektron didn't put out a chart where to check these values.
They speak about recorder buffer automatically boosted by +12dB for headroom compensation...but where are they speaking about?

I would like to set a little test using reference sine and check signal attenuation/boosting at different meauserement paths....when I'll have enough time to set it out..

My small complaint hides a question: Does any of you know this Level Stages? Or has already asked to Elektron for this sort of Level Diagram?

I would be very interested to know too

somebody suggested a while back that the 3-colour OT trig LEDs could be used to make a signal meter. that would be so good!

double post

First try i did:

sine @ -20dBFS straight from my digital mixer 01V96 (at the D/A stage it corresponds to +4dBu) to INP AB....
....I get back a saturated sine...

So, at my very first impression, OT doesn't handle even a Line level(+4dBu) signal (on the manual says +8dBu...but without any mention to THD)

I'll go in further investigation



P.S.
the 3-colours LED are not exactly a good reference...also i've found that when it's ORANGE i already experience saturation (sinewave speaking)

****EDIT****

what i wrote before is FALSE!!! ---sorry
I got a problem in my patchbay....actyually feeding a +4dBu sine into the INP the signal is ok, i.e. no saturation!

Next I'm gonna check the amount of attenuation for different values (DIR-MAIN etc) through the INP

sicijk wrote:
First try i did:
the 3-colours LED are not exactly a good reference...also i've found that when it's ORANGE i already experience saturation (sinewave speaking)

sorry, i was not being very clear. i meant the whole row of 16 pattern-trig LEDs, so a much more accurate VU-style meter.

would be great if that happened (or as an option) when in the record set-up page/s so we can see what the incoming signal is going much better.

oh yeaah...i remember that post....16 segments would be a deal!

i agree 100% !!!!!!!!!the gain staging on this machine is absurdly unclear (and especially important on a sampler).at least release some charts !!! in the manual~~~ This is just one of the many things elektron WOULD do if they were the super futuristic unequivocal company they like to act like they are. a real software meter with actual decibel numbers would be reallllyyy nice.... and also really standard. : / i hope someone from elektron is reading this, seeing how right i am (we all are), and shaking in some comfortable swedish slippers or something.

so guys..did some tests yesterday…

Mainly based on:

• reference sine (-20dBfs - 1kHz from the mixer's oscillator and signal generator of PT) directly patched to analog line-level input of the soundcard (Motu Traveler), the reading is -20dBfs….so this is gonna be the reference level, i.e. Unity Gain (or nominal level, as expected)

• same sine through the OT's INP A/B using OT's DIRECT patching and then back to the soundcard (same input) to read out the peak in PT (not the most accurate test, i know, but fair enough so far) tweaking its parameters (MAIN - DIR - INP GAIN)

• same sine using THRU machine and its parameters (MAIN - INP GAIN - Playback page VOL - Amp page VOL)

• same sine loaded into Flex and Static machines and their parameters (MAIN - TRACK LEVEL - Amp page VOL - file GAIN)

And an oscilloscope fed by PT return just to double check when the sine begins to be squared off (i.e. saturation)
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Well..

****DIRECT****

MAIN @ 0
DIR @ 127
GAIN @ 0

Reading is -24.4dBfs - the unity gain happens for [MAIN @ +19] or [GAIN @ +19] (reading is -19.9dBfs)
Somehow a signal incoming at the input stage and directly patched to the outputs receives an attenuation of ~ 4.5dB

****THRU****

MAIN @ 0
PL VOL @ 0
AMP VOL @ 0
TRK LEV @ 127

Reading is -36.5dBfs. So it has been attenuated (compared to DIRECT patch) by -12dB and by -16.5dB (compared to nominal level)
So.. to have a comparable level between the DIR input and the same after a THRU machine, this machine needs a boost of 12dB (from the AMP VOL or the PL VOL; this last one actually acts as the gain in the Mixer window, so it could be "dangerous" to overload the input stage)

****FLEX/STATIC****

MAIN @ 0
AMP VOL @ 0
TRK LEV @ 127
file GAIN @ 0

Reading is -44.3dBfs. So these machine somehow attenuates by -24dB. It makes sense if you keep in mind that we have +12dB boost on AMP VOL and +24dB on the file's GAIN in the Audio Editor.
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So, now we need a block diagram to better underline the Levels Stages between machines, inputs and main outputs.
Not much time now, but I'll focus my mind on this whenever it's possible.

I did more tests checking how the different VOL controls behave.
Just remember that every level control that spans between 0 > + 63 (I'm not caring that much about 0 > -64, since it attenuates till complete silence) are "interchangeable" and can give a boost of +12dB…….(e.g. MAIN @ +63 boosts by +12dB and so on).
I've found that each step gives a ~0.2/~0.3dB increment. But…..it's NOT linear at all….
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I really would like to get opinions by some ProUsers (are you there Tarekith? Dataline? and whoever =)
In order to have more consciousness about how to create easily and seamlessly a quite correct Gain Structure for this beautiful Machine!

All of this test didn't focus at all on sound quality between controls.
I've just noticed that (THRU machine-wise) it's better to boost the signal by the AMP VOL (even if the Playback page VOL boosts by +12dB, it can give back some saturation).
By the way….all depends on the audio material. And VOL P-Locks are best controlled (IMO) with the one in the AMP page.

Ok,,,that's all -----for now!
Hope it could help a bit.
Throw me garbage also, if you don't give a sh*t of this !!
I'm patient and not that touchy!

BlesS*
GiGi